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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s talk about sex</title>
	<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/</link>
	<description>uncovering life's layers, exploring truth's terrain...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-7413</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 23:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-7413</guid>
					<description>Charles, I'm not sure that any of these are what you're looking for, but...  

-  I recently read Paulo Cuelho's "Eleven Minutes", which is a novel that explores lots of different reasons why people seek sexual encounters.  I can imagine this being a good conversation starter for you and your wife and/or others with whom you're talking about these things - to work through some of the psychology and spirituality of what you're fantasizing or pursuing.  But it isn't an overtly Christian book, and surely does not offer an "authoritative Christian view" on the topic of sex.  

-  Peter Blood has reflected deeply on the topic of sex and sexuality from a Quaker/Christian perspective, and has posted his reflections here:  http://www.quakersong.org/sexuality_position_paper/index.php  My guess is he would be open to talking with you about these things if you have interest.  

-  A friend of mine read a book called Sexuality and the Christian Body, by Eugene Rogers (Blackwell, 1999) last year, and really, really liked it.  And 

-  I've heard many Christians really found Rob Bell's "Sex God" helpful (I haven't read either of these books yet).  

-  Lastly, "The Mystery of Marriage" is another one that has been recommended to me, and that deals, in part, and beautifully, with the topic of sex, though from the perspective of someone fairly newly married, and so possibly differently than how even the author himself might deal with the topic after a number of years of marriage.

I'm not sure that any of these resources would support your wife exploring sexually outside of your marriage, but they might provide helpful insights or ideas for you and your wife to ponder as you work this issue through.

All my best to you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charles, I&#8217;m not sure that any of these are what you&#8217;re looking for, but&#8230;  </p>
<p>-  I recently read Paulo Cuelho&#8217;s &#8220;Eleven Minutes&#8221;, which is a novel that explores lots of different reasons why people seek sexual encounters.  I can imagine this being a good conversation starter for you and your wife and/or others with whom you&#8217;re talking about these things - to work through some of the psychology and spirituality of what you&#8217;re fantasizing or pursuing.  But it isn&#8217;t an overtly Christian book, and surely does not offer an &#8220;authoritative Christian view&#8221; on the topic of sex.  </p>
<p>-  Peter Blood has reflected deeply on the topic of sex and sexuality from a Quaker/Christian perspective, and has posted his reflections here:  <a href='http://www.quakersong.org/sexuality_position_paper/index.php' rel='nofollow'>http://www.quakersong.org/sexuality_position_paper/index.php</a>  My guess is he would be open to talking with you about these things if you have interest.  </p>
<p>-  A friend of mine read a book called Sexuality and the Christian Body, by Eugene Rogers (Blackwell, 1999) last year, and really, really liked it.  And </p>
<p>-  I&#8217;ve heard many Christians really found Rob Bell&#8217;s &#8220;Sex God&#8221; helpful (I haven&#8217;t read either of these books yet).  </p>
<p>-  Lastly, &#8220;The Mystery of Marriage&#8221; is another one that has been recommended to me, and that deals, in part, and beautifully, with the topic of sex, though from the perspective of someone fairly newly married, and so possibly differently than how even the author himself might deal with the topic after a number of years of marriage.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that any of these resources would support your wife exploring sexually outside of your marriage, but they might provide helpful insights or ideas for you and your wife to ponder as you work this issue through.</p>
<p>All my best to you!
</p>
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		<title>by: charles</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-7342</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Aug 2007 10:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-7342</guid>
					<description>Not sure if this issue is relevant to this blog, but my wife and i have different experiences.  Like most guys, i had lots of partners, while she had two before me. She has verbalised several times to me that she regrets not having had more partners. What's more, we have discussed the issue of her having a sexual encounter with someone else. Oddly enough it is a fantasy we both share. The problem i'm having is trying to find an authoritative (not fundamentalist) christian view on this issue. I have searched the web, and it seems as though the 'jury' is split on this issue. can any one help?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure if this issue is relevant to this blog, but my wife and i have different experiences.  Like most guys, i had lots of partners, while she had two before me. She has verbalised several times to me that she regrets not having had more partners. What&#8217;s more, we have discussed the issue of her having a sexual encounter with someone else. Oddly enough it is a fantasy we both share. The problem i&#8217;m having is trying to find an authoritative (not fundamentalist) christian view on this issue. I have searched the web, and it seems as though the &#8216;jury&#8217; is split on this issue. can any one help?
</p>
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		<title>by: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-6110</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-6110</guid>
					<description>Holly, these both are books I will definitely read (just looked them up and perused their tables of contents).  Thanks so much for the leads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holly, these both are books I will definitely read (just looked them up and perused their tables of contents).  Thanks so much for the leads.
</p>
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		<title>by: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-6109</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-6109</guid>
					<description>I highly recommend two very interesting books that deal with sexual issues:
"The Soul of Sex" by Thomas Moore and "Harmful to Minors-The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex" by Judith Levine. I think you will find them very thought provoking on different levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I highly recommend two very interesting books that deal with sexual issues:<br />
&#8220;The Soul of Sex&#8221; by Thomas Moore and &#8220;Harmful to Minors-The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex&#8221; by Judith Levine. I think you will find them very thought provoking on different levels.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2710</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2710</guid>
					<description>Thanks, Paul.  Sounds like a book I need to look up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Paul.  Sounds like a book I need to look up!
</p>
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		<title>by: Paul Morgun</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2683</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2683</guid>
					<description>I am enjoying Rob Bell's Book SEX GOD, on this particular subject of sexuality and spirituality and the endless connections between the two...I don't have much more to add other then I have enjoyed reading your thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am enjoying Rob Bell&#8217;s Book SEX GOD, on this particular subject of sexuality and spirituality and the endless connections between the two&#8230;I don&#8217;t have much more to add other then I have enjoyed reading your thoughts.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2321</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Mar 2007 20:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2321</guid>
					<description>Gypsy Girl, yes to all you've said here!  It's funny - as much as virginity is understood in many circles as a treasure to save and give to a mate, I DO associate the word with females.  What you've said is so true.  (I hope to meet you in person one day, too!  My dad- and brother-in-law speak highly of you and enjoyed learning of your work in DRC).

Lorna, welcome!  In light of some of the questions Christy left us with, I'm drawn to what you said here:  "I do think our frank discussions about it gave our kids the opportunity to make informed choices for themselves, to practice safe sex when they practiced sex, and to be respectful of other people’s ways."  Isn't this the best we can hope for - not only as parents, but as people in general?  This conversation is giving me so much more information on which to base my views on sex, and is deepening my respect for other people's choices.  I want to keep thinking about ways, beyond this space, and beyond conversations around family dinner tables, where this kind of thing can happen.

Gail, you have put into words so beautifully what I think many of us are looking for:  "To talk, to write, to ask questions, to make mistakes, to not be made to feel ashamed for one’s thoughts or feelings, and to be loved and accepted no matter the decisions made, mistakes made, or regrets expressed."  Yes!  I want nothing more than this.  Thank you all for helping create this kind of space for me and others here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gypsy Girl, yes to all you&#8217;ve said here!  It&#8217;s funny - as much as virginity is understood in many circles as a treasure to save and give to a mate, I DO associate the word with females.  What you&#8217;ve said is so true.  (I hope to meet you in person one day, too!  My dad- and brother-in-law speak highly of you and enjoyed learning of your work in DRC).</p>
<p>Lorna, welcome!  In light of some of the questions Christy left us with, I&#8217;m drawn to what you said here:  &#8220;I do think our frank discussions about it gave our kids the opportunity to make informed choices for themselves, to practice safe sex when they practiced sex, and to be respectful of other people’s ways.&#8221;  Isn&#8217;t this the best we can hope for - not only as parents, but as people in general?  This conversation is giving me so much more information on which to base my views on sex, and is deepening my respect for other people&#8217;s choices.  I want to keep thinking about ways, beyond this space, and beyond conversations around family dinner tables, where this kind of thing can happen.</p>
<p>Gail, you have put into words so beautifully what I think many of us are looking for:  &#8220;To talk, to write, to ask questions, to make mistakes, to not be made to feel ashamed for one’s thoughts or feelings, and to be loved and accepted no matter the decisions made, mistakes made, or regrets expressed.&#8221;  Yes!  I want nothing more than this.  Thank you all for helping create this kind of space for me and others here.
</p>
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		<title>by: GailNHB</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2302</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2302</guid>
					<description>I agree with Kristin that Christy's questions are excellent. "Who am I? What is my story? Given my story, what expressions of my sexuality would be most self and others affirming? do I have safe people to talk about this with? What am I hiding from myself or others? Where are my expressions of sexuality coming from - fear, love, shame, selfishness, joy, etc?" 

I think one thing that has come up often in this discussion is the lack of freedom to ask and answer these kinds of questions. Added to that has been a consistent inability to find support as we answer them. Safety is key, whether that safety is in one's family - to discuss these crucial issues or the safety to go to sleep without being attacked by someone you are supposed to trust - or within the context of a consensual, adult relationship. To talk, to write, to ask questions, to make mistakes, to not be made to feel ashamed for one's thoughts or feelings, and to be loved and accepted no matter the decisions made, mistakes made, or regrets expressed. 

I am doing everything I can to break that silence, to end that pattern of shame in my own family. I have already made it clear to both of my children that there is nothing they cannot tell me or ask me, and that nothing they can do will make me stop loving them. They have both already tested that in private moments: questions, concerns, wondering about their bodies and their feelings about people of the opposite sex.  

It's a start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Kristin that Christy&#8217;s questions are excellent. &#8220;Who am I? What is my story? Given my story, what expressions of my sexuality would be most self and others affirming? do I have safe people to talk about this with? What am I hiding from myself or others? Where are my expressions of sexuality coming from - fear, love, shame, selfishness, joy, etc?&#8221; </p>
<p>I think one thing that has come up often in this discussion is the lack of freedom to ask and answer these kinds of questions. Added to that has been a consistent inability to find support as we answer them. Safety is key, whether that safety is in one&#8217;s family - to discuss these crucial issues or the safety to go to sleep without being attacked by someone you are supposed to trust - or within the context of a consensual, adult relationship. To talk, to write, to ask questions, to make mistakes, to not be made to feel ashamed for one&#8217;s thoughts or feelings, and to be loved and accepted no matter the decisions made, mistakes made, or regrets expressed. </p>
<p>I am doing everything I can to break that silence, to end that pattern of shame in my own family. I have already made it clear to both of my children that there is nothing they cannot tell me or ask me, and that nothing they can do will make me stop loving them. They have both already tested that in private moments: questions, concerns, wondering about their bodies and their feelings about people of the opposite sex.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a start.
</p>
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		<title>by: Lorna</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2297</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Mar 2007 02:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2297</guid>
					<description>I'm here by way of Fran's site, and I find my experience to be different from most of you; I am 64, and from the time I was about 19, I was aware that I thought of sex and love as separate things.  I definitely do not remember everyone with whom I had sex...not because they were legion, but because not every sex act is memorable, in the same way that not all books are memorable, and not every gourmet meal is one I want to repeat.  I do remember all the people whom I've loved, and with many of them, I've had wonderful or at least satisfactory sexual experiences, but that is pretty much coincidental.  This is something that was instinctive with me, and I have to admit that I hadn't thought it through, hadn't measured it up against my religious beliefs, and didn't expect that I would find too many people who were of like mind.  I count myself lucky because, growing up in the 60s, I could have had relationships that were complicated by jealousy, but that didn't happen.  I made my feelings about the separation of sex and love clear to anyone who was interested, and if they were OK with it, so was I.  Having been married twice, I can honestly say that my non-monogamous lifestyle wasn't an issue; I've been with my present husband since 1974.  My children know and respect our feelings, but don't necessarily agree with them, and that's fine too.  I do think our frank discussions about it gave our kids the opportunity to make informed choices for themselves, to practice safe sex when they practiced sex, and to be respectful of other people's ways.
Thanks for the chance to think about this---I have to admit it's not personally a big issue anymore, but sexuality, sensuality and love do continue  to play a role in my life, and I'm grateful for that, however I came by the experiences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m here by way of Fran&#8217;s site, and I find my experience to be different from most of you; I am 64, and from the time I was about 19, I was aware that I thought of sex and love as separate things.  I definitely do not remember everyone with whom I had sex&#8230;not because they were legion, but because not every sex act is memorable, in the same way that not all books are memorable, and not every gourmet meal is one I want to repeat.  I do remember all the people whom I&#8217;ve loved, and with many of them, I&#8217;ve had wonderful or at least satisfactory sexual experiences, but that is pretty much coincidental.  This is something that was instinctive with me, and I have to admit that I hadn&#8217;t thought it through, hadn&#8217;t measured it up against my religious beliefs, and didn&#8217;t expect that I would find too many people who were of like mind.  I count myself lucky because, growing up in the 60s, I could have had relationships that were complicated by jealousy, but that didn&#8217;t happen.  I made my feelings about the separation of sex and love clear to anyone who was interested, and if they were OK with it, so was I.  Having been married twice, I can honestly say that my non-monogamous lifestyle wasn&#8217;t an issue; I&#8217;ve been with my present husband since 1974.  My children know and respect our feelings, but don&#8217;t necessarily agree with them, and that&#8217;s fine too.  I do think our frank discussions about it gave our kids the opportunity to make informed choices for themselves, to practice safe sex when they practiced sex, and to be respectful of other people&#8217;s ways.<br />
Thanks for the chance to think about this&#8212;I have to admit it&#8217;s not personally a big issue anymore, but sexuality, sensuality and love do continue  to play a role in my life, and I&#8217;m grateful for that, however I came by the experiences.
</p>
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		<title>by: gypsy girl</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2296</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/03/05/lets-talk-about-sex/#comment-2296</guid>
					<description>Wow, what a great conversation!  I also grew up in a conservative Christian family and remember thinking that if I got pregnant as a teenager I would have to kill myself rather than disappoint my family with the knowledge that I had had premarital sex.  Now as I consider having a family of my own I am determined that my own children will not have to face that kind of fear and guilt about sex.  I had one sexual partner before my husband and my only regret about that is the extreme amount of shame and guilt I endured.  A relative of mine "saved herself" for marriage and sex has been a traumatic and unfulfilling experience ever since.  
I am also interested in the connections between sexism and sex in our culture.  There are still huge double standards between expectations on boys and girls around the issue of sex.  The idea that a girl's virginity is some kind of holy grail that should be defended and championed at all costs seems like yet another objectification of the feminine to me.  In it's extreme it results in women victims of rape being killed as an act of "honor" in some societies.  
Thanks for opening a space for this dialogue.

p.s. Kristin, I enjoyed meeting your father-in-law and brother-in-law in DRC last month.  Hope to cross paths with you someday too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, what a great conversation!  I also grew up in a conservative Christian family and remember thinking that if I got pregnant as a teenager I would have to kill myself rather than disappoint my family with the knowledge that I had had premarital sex.  Now as I consider having a family of my own I am determined that my own children will not have to face that kind of fear and guilt about sex.  I had one sexual partner before my husband and my only regret about that is the extreme amount of shame and guilt I endured.  A relative of mine &#8220;saved herself&#8221; for marriage and sex has been a traumatic and unfulfilling experience ever since.<br />
I am also interested in the connections between sexism and sex in our culture.  There are still huge double standards between expectations on boys and girls around the issue of sex.  The idea that a girl&#8217;s virginity is some kind of holy grail that should be defended and championed at all costs seems like yet another objectification of the feminine to me.  In it&#8217;s extreme it results in women victims of rape being killed as an act of &#8220;honor&#8221; in some societies.<br />
Thanks for opening a space for this dialogue.</p>
<p>p.s. Kristin, I enjoyed meeting your father-in-law and brother-in-law in DRC last month.  Hope to cross paths with you someday too.
</p>
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