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	<title>Comments on: Out from the depths</title>
	<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/</link>
	<description>uncovering life's layers, exploring truth's terrain...</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Kristin Noelle &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Happy down under</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-3182</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-3182</guid>
					<description>[...] Do any of you remember this post? - the one in which I practically danced off the screen and kissed you all?  I have to chuckle at how true the last part of it is - how all that (broadly-defined) sexual energy just can&#8217;t sustain itself forever.  How it seems to come in seasons. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Do any of you remember this post? - the one in which I practically danced off the screen and kissed you all?  I have to chuckle at how true the last part of it is - how all that (broadly-defined) sexual energy just can&#8217;t sustain itself forever.  How it seems to come in seasons. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Sage</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2276</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 06:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2276</guid>
					<description>Welcome back to "feeling it right now!" What a thrill it is to be in a moment, and receive it with one's entire being! Thank you for this generous and gorgeous celebration!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome back to &#8220;feeling it right now!&#8221; What a thrill it is to be in a moment, and receive it with one&#8217;s entire being! Thank you for this generous and gorgeous celebration!
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		<title>by: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2258</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2258</guid>
					<description>Gail, I like what you've said here so much.  "Reining in the excessiveness of obsession" is a really nice phrase.  "Changing levels in certain friendships" also speaks to a more nuanced way of seeing things - that magical relationships don't need to fall into black/white, good/bad categories, but rather can be places where fine tuning comes in, where life-givingness and life-takingness can be ongoing things to watch for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gail, I like what you&#8217;ve said here so much.  &#8220;Reining in the excessiveness of obsession&#8221; is a really nice phrase.  &#8220;Changing levels in certain friendships&#8221; also speaks to a more nuanced way of seeing things - that magical relationships don&#8217;t need to fall into black/white, good/bad categories, but rather can be places where fine tuning comes in, where life-givingness and life-takingness can be ongoing things to watch for.
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		<title>by: GailNHB</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2253</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2253</guid>
					<description>Such interesting questions in your last comment, Kristin. Obsession can become destructively obsessive at times, but in its best incarnation, obsession is a matter of going deeper, sticking with one or two good relationships and bringing gems to the surfac, gems that might be missed if I left things just in that "one glance and walk on" phase. For example, to know someone whose love of art resonates with your own, to recognize a similar passion in someone else and develop it more, adds to my marriage. Because even if my husband doesn't love art in the same way, I can bring the newfound passion for a specific artist or the energy from a conversation about art into my marriage. 

It certainly has the possibility of distracting from my marriage, and sometimes it has. But I am learning to rein in the excessiveness of obsession and focus on what is making me stronger and richer as a person. I have had to change levels in certain friendships, but I haven't abandoned many completely. If the magic is there, I want to nourish it. If it is a real connection, I don't want to lose it. 

I think it is possible to remain aware of other places where magic is happening in my life. Sometimes I think that each connection builds on the last one. So to have two or three magical friendships makes me more alert to the magic in my life because as I see reminders of them, I see new things as well. The wonder multiplies rather than divides. Is it possible to have too much passion, to long for too much wonder in life? 

I believe that the more passionate and loving and magical my own life is, the more I have to bring into my marriage. Like you said earlier, I am able to transfer the thrill into my family and my marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such interesting questions in your last comment, Kristin. Obsession can become destructively obsessive at times, but in its best incarnation, obsession is a matter of going deeper, sticking with one or two good relationships and bringing gems to the surfac, gems that might be missed if I left things just in that &#8220;one glance and walk on&#8221; phase. For example, to know someone whose love of art resonates with your own, to recognize a similar passion in someone else and develop it more, adds to my marriage. Because even if my husband doesn&#8217;t love art in the same way, I can bring the newfound passion for a specific artist or the energy from a conversation about art into my marriage. </p>
<p>It certainly has the possibility of distracting from my marriage, and sometimes it has. But I am learning to rein in the excessiveness of obsession and focus on what is making me stronger and richer as a person. I have had to change levels in certain friendships, but I haven&#8217;t abandoned many completely. If the magic is there, I want to nourish it. If it is a real connection, I don&#8217;t want to lose it. </p>
<p>I think it is possible to remain aware of other places where magic is happening in my life. Sometimes I think that each connection builds on the last one. So to have two or three magical friendships makes me more alert to the magic in my life because as I see reminders of them, I see new things as well. The wonder multiplies rather than divides. Is it possible to have too much passion, to long for too much wonder in life? </p>
<p>I believe that the more passionate and loving and magical my own life is, the more I have to bring into my marriage. Like you said earlier, I am able to transfer the thrill into my family and my marriage.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2247</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 22:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2247</guid>
					<description>I have only moments here, but wanted to quickly return to a couple things.  Gail, I think you're so right - there really is something magical about seeing "it" (your anima/animus) in someone else - something palpable and powerful and wonderful.  I don't even think this "seeing-of-it" has to be in someone we personally know, either.  I think it can happen when we see a character in a movie, or in a photograph, or in a chat with a stranger we know we won’t see again.  When we see "it", we are enriched.  Life is made more beautiful.  And all the more so, surely, when it happens with someone we actually get to be in relationship with.

I don't know what to think of the obsession aspect of the magic, though.  It really can be sweet and rich.  But can't it also pull you away from recognizing, because of your preoccupation with the person in whom you're seeing your anima or animus, the other kinds of magic that are happening in your other relationships, including the one you might be in with your partner or spouse?  Long-term partnership, even with a soulmate, seems to diminish the magical feelings of connection that are part of the early stages of love.  Getting to experience this magic again, in a variety of ways, seems wonderful and healthy to me, and is part of this whole "seeing it in someone" experience, I think.  But I'm unclear on when this "seeing it" and getting caught up in its magic, is actually harming of the long-term partnership one might be wanting to nourish and maintain.  What has been your experience with this?  How have your magical relationships affected your marriage relationship?

I love the addition of the word "sensual" to the conversation, and how you've described so much of life as sensual.  Maybe much of what we've been describing as sexual would be more accurately described as sensual - without the need for the word sexual at all.

Christy, I love your definition of sexual energy, too.  These things have all been interconnected for me, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have only moments here, but wanted to quickly return to a couple things.  Gail, I think you&#8217;re so right - there really is something magical about seeing &#8220;it&#8221; (your anima/animus) in someone else - something palpable and powerful and wonderful.  I don&#8217;t even think this &#8220;seeing-of-it&#8221; has to be in someone we personally know, either.  I think it can happen when we see a character in a movie, or in a photograph, or in a chat with a stranger we know we won’t see again.  When we see &#8220;it&#8221;, we are enriched.  Life is made more beautiful.  And all the more so, surely, when it happens with someone we actually get to be in relationship with.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what to think of the obsession aspect of the magic, though.  It really can be sweet and rich.  But can&#8217;t it also pull you away from recognizing, because of your preoccupation with the person in whom you&#8217;re seeing your anima or animus, the other kinds of magic that are happening in your other relationships, including the one you might be in with your partner or spouse?  Long-term partnership, even with a soulmate, seems to diminish the magical feelings of connection that are part of the early stages of love.  Getting to experience this magic again, in a variety of ways, seems wonderful and healthy to me, and is part of this whole &#8220;seeing it in someone&#8221; experience, I think.  But I&#8217;m unclear on when this &#8220;seeing it&#8221; and getting caught up in its magic, is actually harming of the long-term partnership one might be wanting to nourish and maintain.  What has been your experience with this?  How have your magical relationships affected your marriage relationship?</p>
<p>I love the addition of the word &#8220;sensual&#8221; to the conversation, and how you&#8217;ve described so much of life as sensual.  Maybe much of what we&#8217;ve been describing as sexual would be more accurately described as sensual - without the need for the word sexual at all.</p>
<p>Christy, I love your definition of sexual energy, too.  These things have all been interconnected for me, too.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kristin Noelle &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Sexuality, spirituality, creativity (sexuaspiritreativity?)</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2244</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2244</guid>
					<description>[...] Last time Christy said the second chakra in Kunadlini yoga has to do with sexuality and creativity. Both. She said, &#8220;I think it [sexual/creative energy] has something to do with being comfortable taking up space and being seen and being naked - creativity and sex both require a certain amount of self-revelation, and in a lot of ways it’s the same sort of energy.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Last time Christy said the second chakra in Kunadlini yoga has to do with sexuality and creativity. Both. She said, &#8220;I think it [sexual/creative energy] has something to do with being comfortable taking up space and being seen and being naked - creativity and sex both require a certain amount of self-revelation, and in a lot of ways it’s the same sort of energy.&#8221; [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: GailNHB</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2243</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2243</guid>
					<description>I think your definition is quite helpful, Kristin. You asked if there is another word that describes what you wrote; I'm not sure. 

I think one of the main issues with the word "sexuality" is found in the first three letters: sex. That's where most people stop. There is a repulsion and repression and fear that is often attached to any discussion related to that word that halts many a conversation or stream of thought because we often go to that place where people are naked and "doing it." It's tough to move beyond those three letters and the skewed ways in which so many of us are socialized - or not socialized - with regard to sex and sexuality. Even the word "sensuality" brings up steamy images of adultery and other forms of illicit sex. My mind goes back to an earlier part of this discussion in which we acknowledged the lack of freedom we often feel to discuss the parts of ourselves that are not easily defined or controlled. It is difficult indeed to define these things, but let's keep trying. 

I am playing with a few questions related to this word "sexuality" and adding "sensuality" to the mix. What is the body - with its eyes, ears, nose, mouth, fingers, and billions of nerve cells responding to billions of forms of stimuli daily - if it is not sexual and sensual? What is the energy and desire that moves us to reach out to others, to be touched (as friends or as lovers), to be noticed and appreciated if it is not sexual and sensual? It does not mean that every person I touch as we talk or every person who touches me has the sex act in his or her mind. I think many of our life exchanges and interactions are sexual and sensual nonetheless. 

Christy's comment reminds me of my upbringing. As a young teenager, I asked my mother about sex. I was told to open the BIble to a verse about "fornication" and was asked if I "had a problem with that." Not a forum for open conversation or inquiry. Mercy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your definition is quite helpful, Kristin. You asked if there is another word that describes what you wrote; I&#8217;m not sure. </p>
<p>I think one of the main issues with the word &#8220;sexuality&#8221; is found in the first three letters: sex. That&#8217;s where most people stop. There is a repulsion and repression and fear that is often attached to any discussion related to that word that halts many a conversation or stream of thought because we often go to that place where people are naked and &#8220;doing it.&#8221; It&#8217;s tough to move beyond those three letters and the skewed ways in which so many of us are socialized - or not socialized - with regard to sex and sexuality. Even the word &#8220;sensuality&#8221; brings up steamy images of adultery and other forms of illicit sex. My mind goes back to an earlier part of this discussion in which we acknowledged the lack of freedom we often feel to discuss the parts of ourselves that are not easily defined or controlled. It is difficult indeed to define these things, but let&#8217;s keep trying. </p>
<p>I am playing with a few questions related to this word &#8220;sexuality&#8221; and adding &#8220;sensuality&#8221; to the mix. What is the body - with its eyes, ears, nose, mouth, fingers, and billions of nerve cells responding to billions of forms of stimuli daily - if it is not sexual and sensual? What is the energy and desire that moves us to reach out to others, to be touched (as friends or as lovers), to be noticed and appreciated if it is not sexual and sensual? It does not mean that every person I touch as we talk or every person who touches me has the sex act in his or her mind. I think many of our life exchanges and interactions are sexual and sensual nonetheless. </p>
<p>Christy&#8217;s comment reminds me of my upbringing. As a young teenager, I asked my mother about sex. I was told to open the BIble to a verse about &#8220;fornication&#8221; and was asked if I &#8220;had a problem with that.&#8221; Not a forum for open conversation or inquiry. Mercy!
</p>
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		<title>by: Christy</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2241</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2241</guid>
					<description>Wow - great conversation.  I think too often we divide up our experience into categories and say "This part here is my sexuality.  This part here is my spirituality.  This part here is my body. This part here is my brain.", and I don't think it works that way.  I think our sexuality is something that infuses all parts of us, and you can't just confine it to one part of your life, and even if you're not sexually active, you are still a sexual person and affected by your sexuality. 

I think I'm particularly aware of this since I've been doing so much hard personal work the past couple of years around my history of years of sexual abuse.  That, combined with a pretty fundy religious upbringing, effectively shut down my sexuality, but it wasn't like that just affected my romantic relationships - or lack thereof.  As that part of me has come back to life, it has radically tranformed my spirituality, my friendships, and my creativity.  It's all interconnected and goes back to healing this deep, wounded part of me that just wants to avoid being seen at all costs...

So I think I would define sexuality as part of this "willingness to be seen and take up space" energy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow - great conversation.  I think too often we divide up our experience into categories and say &#8220;This part here is my sexuality.  This part here is my spirituality.  This part here is my body. This part here is my brain.&#8221;, and I don&#8217;t think it works that way.  I think our sexuality is something that infuses all parts of us, and you can&#8217;t just confine it to one part of your life, and even if you&#8217;re not sexually active, you are still a sexual person and affected by your sexuality. </p>
<p>I think I&#8217;m particularly aware of this since I&#8217;ve been doing so much hard personal work the past couple of years around my history of years of sexual abuse.  That, combined with a pretty fundy religious upbringing, effectively shut down my sexuality, but it wasn&#8217;t like that just affected my romantic relationships - or lack thereof.  As that part of me has come back to life, it has radically tranformed my spirituality, my friendships, and my creativity.  It&#8217;s all interconnected and goes back to healing this deep, wounded part of me that just wants to avoid being seen at all costs&#8230;</p>
<p>So I think I would define sexuality as part of this &#8220;willingness to be seen and take up space&#8221; energy.
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		<title>by: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2240</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2240</guid>
					<description>I'm so glad for all of your companionship and insight in this!  So thank you, too!  I only wish there were more time to talk.

Julianne, a more clear way of defining sexuality in this conversation really seems in order.  Thanks for raising the issue.  Defined one way, I could say, like you, sexuality is a small part of me, related mainly to a) having or wanting sex with my husband, b) having my sexual desire awaken when watching others' expressions of physical connection (in movies, plays, public spaces, etc.), or c) noticing that I'm sexually attracted to someone, whether this be my husband or not.  Altogether, these don't comprise even close to a majority of my waking thought life or feeling life.

Defined a different way - and I think some of the other comments, like Christy's and Gail's, get at this - I think sexuality can be much deeper and broader than "having to do with sexual desire".  This is where words feel gangly and inadequate to get at what I mean.  There's a kind of force, it seems to me, that is stronger in some people than others, which is like sexual tension, but not completely defined by that (if you've ever had a crush on someone, you know what I mean by sexual tension), and that doesn't necessarily get directed at people, but can just be something they walk around with.  It's a force that, in my mind at least, relates with creativity, like Christy mentioned, and with passion, with the noticeable capacity for abandonment.  It relates with enjoyment of being seen, whether this be physically, intellectually, or spiritually.

Defined this way, I'd say sexuality is part of a big percentage of human experience--maybe an enormous percentage of it.  Sometimes the big percentage of experience that it gets related to is actually attempts at trying to repress and control it, because it scares a lot of us to death.  Anything that pulls for abandonment - to feelings, to sexual passion, to creative energy, to being fully seen in whatever physical or spiritual or intellectual way - is VERY scary if control is what we need (or feel we need).  Or if shame is messing at all with our insides.  Expending energy to control or repress our sexual force is still expending sexual energy, though.

All this being said, I wonder whether the initial comment in this post about life force having many flavors is still true, then, if sexuality is defined this broadly.

How would you (or anyone else) define sexuality?  Would you have a different word for what I've just described?

Gail, I will have to get back to your comments soon!  I wish life had a pause button when I'm wanting to converse longer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad for all of your companionship and insight in this!  So thank you, too!  I only wish there were more time to talk.</p>
<p>Julianne, a more clear way of defining sexuality in this conversation really seems in order.  Thanks for raising the issue.  Defined one way, I could say, like you, sexuality is a small part of me, related mainly to a) having or wanting sex with my husband, b) having my sexual desire awaken when watching others&#8217; expressions of physical connection (in movies, plays, public spaces, etc.), or c) noticing that I&#8217;m sexually attracted to someone, whether this be my husband or not.  Altogether, these don&#8217;t comprise even close to a majority of my waking thought life or feeling life.</p>
<p>Defined a different way - and I think some of the other comments, like Christy&#8217;s and Gail&#8217;s, get at this - I think sexuality can be much deeper and broader than &#8220;having to do with sexual desire&#8221;.  This is where words feel gangly and inadequate to get at what I mean.  There&#8217;s a kind of force, it seems to me, that is stronger in some people than others, which is like sexual tension, but not completely defined by that (if you&#8217;ve ever had a crush on someone, you know what I mean by sexual tension), and that doesn&#8217;t necessarily get directed at people, but can just be something they walk around with.  It&#8217;s a force that, in my mind at least, relates with creativity, like Christy mentioned, and with passion, with the noticeable capacity for abandonment.  It relates with enjoyment of being seen, whether this be physically, intellectually, or spiritually.</p>
<p>Defined this way, I&#8217;d say sexuality is part of a big percentage of human experience&#8211;maybe an enormous percentage of it.  Sometimes the big percentage of experience that it gets related to is actually attempts at trying to repress and control it, because it scares a lot of us to death.  Anything that pulls for abandonment - to feelings, to sexual passion, to creative energy, to being fully seen in whatever physical or spiritual or intellectual way - is VERY scary if control is what we need (or feel we need).  Or if shame is messing at all with our insides.  Expending energy to control or repress our sexual force is still expending sexual energy, though.</p>
<p>All this being said, I wonder whether the initial comment in this post about life force having many flavors is still true, then, if sexuality is defined this broadly.</p>
<p>How would you (or anyone else) define sexuality?  Would you have a different word for what I&#8217;ve just described?</p>
<p>Gail, I will have to get back to your comments soon!  I wish life had a pause button when I&#8217;m wanting to converse longer!
</p>
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		<title>by: julianne</title>
		<link>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2239</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2007/02/15/out-from-the-depths/#comment-2239</guid>
					<description>Thank you to all of you for your comments and for feeling safe in a place that is so public. Because it is public - because I read your intimate thoughts and I do  not know you - I felt I should say thank you for being intimate. I have felt a bit confused by these thoughts personally. Perhaps I am like one of these young adults atticus is in touch with (even though I am a married adult woman). I feel really unfamiliar with the ideas and relations expressed here, or at least the way they are being expressed. I tend to think of sexuality as a small part of me and not a significant part of my interactions with the world or individuals who are not my husband. How do you define sexuality? I find my own 'life source' to be much more a spiritual/psychic and intimate/vulnerable thing than something I would relate to sexuality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you to all of you for your comments and for feeling safe in a place that is so public. Because it is public - because I read your intimate thoughts and I do  not know you - I felt I should say thank you for being intimate. I have felt a bit confused by these thoughts personally. Perhaps I am like one of these young adults atticus is in touch with (even though I am a married adult woman). I feel really unfamiliar with the ideas and relations expressed here, or at least the way they are being expressed. I tend to think of sexuality as a small part of me and not a significant part of my interactions with the world or individuals who are not my husband. How do you define sexuality? I find my own &#8216;life source&#8217; to be much more a spiritual/psychic and intimate/vulnerable thing than something I would relate to sexuality.
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