Comments on: On the instants of change http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/ uncovering life's layers, exploring truth's terrain... Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:22:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Kristin http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1516 Tue, 07 Nov 2006 21:05:18 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1516 Hannah, I think you're exactly right! Snapshots are so different from lived reality. Seems like that's the difference you've described here so well. Hannah, I think you’re exactly right! Snapshots are so different from lived reality. Seems like that’s the difference you’ve described here so well.

]]> by: Hannah http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1514 Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:33:41 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1514 This is a great post, thank you for being brave enough to work it out "on paper". My initial thought on Coelho's quote is that there seems to be a disconnect between what happens based on a 3rd person observer vs. what happens from a first person perspective vs. what happened when we look back (either 1st or 3rd person) and closely examine the causes. I think from a 3rd person angle it is much easier to see how an external event can have significant impact on a person in a short period of time. However, from the backward gazing perspective, I think it is much easier to see how this has been a process that culminated in the large event. And the person who is actually going through that process probably just feels like their trying to keep their head above water and how dare the rest of us talk to him/her about how much the event (or the process) has changed them. So, I don't think that your two views are inconsistent at all, rather they seem to reflect different perspectives on the same issue. Anyway, I'm not sure this really contributes to the conversation, but thought I'd share my thoughts :) This is a great post, thank you for being brave enough to work it out “on paper”. My initial thought on Coelho’s quote is that there seems to be a disconnect between what happens based on a 3rd person observer vs. what happens from a first person perspective vs. what happened when we look back (either 1st or 3rd person) and closely examine the causes. I think from a 3rd person angle it is much easier to see how an external event can have significant impact on a person in a short period of time. However, from the backward gazing perspective, I think it is much easier to see how this has been a process that culminated in the large event. And the person who is actually going through that process probably just feels like their trying to keep their head above water and how dare the rest of us talk to him/her about how much the event (or the process) has changed them. So, I don’t think that your two views are inconsistent at all, rather they seem to reflect different perspectives on the same issue.

Anyway, I’m not sure this really contributes to the conversation, but thought I’d share my thoughts :)

]]> by: Kristin http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1509 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:14:13 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1509 Christine--I really like what you've described of Mead's fate/destiny discussion. No matter what words we give to those concepts, both seem real--the idea that we are dealt a hand of cards (fate), and these can be navigated in such a way that we're "stuck" a lot of the time, or in such a way that we grow more and more free to give our gift/s to the world, unencumbered. What this makes me wonder is if the ability to navigate in this latter way is also a kind of gift or fate, though, made up of nature and nurture and all the people and events in our lives that have participated in even our capacity to flourish. Is it really a choice to "fight the good fight", or is it a gift, or series of them? Heather, thanks. Albert, so nice to meet you! Yes, I think you're right: philosophizing isn't possible in so many situations. And being in the moment seems to come so much more easily when we've had enough food, sleep, sex, etc. Cultivating the kind of presentness you've described without such things seems possible, but a lot harder. And maybe what you mean by this being a luxury in the West? Christine–I really like what you’ve described of Mead’s fate/destiny discussion. No matter what words we give to those concepts, both seem real–the idea that we are dealt a hand of cards (fate), and these can be navigated in such a way that we’re “stuck” a lot of the time, or in such a way that we grow more and more free to give our gift/s to the world, unencumbered. What this makes me wonder is if the ability to navigate in this latter way is also a kind of gift or fate, though, made up of nature and nurture and all the people and events in our lives that have participated in even our capacity to flourish. Is it really a choice to “fight the good fight”, or is it a gift, or series of them?

Heather, thanks.

Albert, so nice to meet you! Yes, I think you’re right: philosophizing isn’t possible in so many situations. And being in the moment seems to come so much more easily when we’ve had enough food, sleep, sex, etc. Cultivating the kind of presentness you’ve described without such things seems possible, but a lot harder. And maybe what you mean by this being a luxury in the West?

]]> by: Albert http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1508 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 19:52:40 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1508 hmmm, really interesting thinking, thanks. I feel like we in the West have a luxury not found elsewhere. And, since we do, we get to ponder things longer. then, there's also being in the moment, being present, which I'm finally getting more of an idea about, which makes my life feel very different than it has in the past, like decisions come a lot slower, and I feel into things more. anyway, am looking forward to picking up this book, thanks for the recommendation, and nice to bump into your blog, and this whole series of women blog writers. got here from sage said so. hmmm, really interesting thinking, thanks. I feel like we in the West have a luxury not found elsewhere. And, since we do, we get to ponder things longer. then, there’s also being in the moment, being present, which I’m finally getting more of an idea about, which makes my life feel very different than it has in the past, like decisions come a lot slower, and I feel into things more. anyway, am looking forward to picking up this book, thanks for the recommendation, and nice to bump into your blog, and this whole series of women blog writers. got here from sage said so.

]]> by: Heather http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1506 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 14:12:14 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1506 I think you are right on all counts. I have had life-changing weeks, but I have also had long slow transformations. Well said. I think you are right on all counts. I have had life-changing weeks, but I have also had long slow transformations.

Well said.

]]> by: Sacred Art of Living http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1505 Fri, 03 Nov 2006 13:41:00 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/11/02/in-the-instants-of-process/#comment-1505 Lovely post, especially the tipping point image and I couldn't agree more about the process. We are in a continual lifelong journey of unfolding. I recently was listening to some CD's by Michael Mead who is a storyteller and deals with the mythic imagination. One was on Fate and Destiny which I found fascinating as previously I would have said I believe in neither. He talks about fates as those agreements we make when we enter this world to live in a particular familial, social, cultural, gendered context that shape us and make up the patterns in our lives. Our fate can either lead us away from or toward our destiny, it depends on how much energy we spend fighting them or listening to them and how they want to guide us. Destiny he said comes from the Latin destinares, or aimed at the stars and described it as the one thing we must do in this life, not as a pre-planned script, but our unique gift in the world. The thing we often spend most of a lifetime fighting against. This is of course an over-simplification of his ideas, but I was very taken with them. Lovely post, especially the tipping point image and I couldn’t agree more about the process. We are in a continual lifelong journey of unfolding. I recently was listening to some CD’s by Michael Mead who is a storyteller and deals with the mythic imagination. One was on Fate and Destiny which I found fascinating as previously I would have said I believe in neither. He talks about fates as those agreements we make when we enter this world to live in a particular familial, social, cultural, gendered context that shape us and make up the patterns in our lives. Our fate can either lead us away from or toward our destiny, it depends on how much energy we spend fighting them or listening to them and how they want to guide us. Destiny he said comes from the Latin destinares, or aimed at the stars and described it as the one thing we must do in this life, not as a pre-planned script, but our unique gift in the world. The thing we often spend most of a lifetime fighting against. This is of course an over-simplification of his ideas, but I was very taken with them.

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