Comments on: Birds of many feathers Part II: As long as the birds can get high enough to see beyond the crevasse http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/10/10/birds-of-many-feathers-part-ii-as-long-as-the-birds-can-get-high-enough-to-see-beyond-the-crevasse/ uncovering life's layers, exploring truth's terrain... Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:54:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Kristin http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/10/10/birds-of-many-feathers-part-ii-as-long-as-the-birds-can-get-high-enough-to-see-beyond-the-crevasse/#comment-1439 Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:03:07 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/10/10/birds-of-many-feathers-part-ii-as-long-as-the-birds-can-get-high-enough-to-see-beyond-the-crevasse/#comment-1439 I think <a href="http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Get_Informed4&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=34212" rel="nofollow">this</a> is a wonderful example of bridge building, put out by the Human Rights Campaign. A guy on a street corner yesterday was telling people in my neighborhood about the organization. I think this is a wonderful example of bridge building, put out by the Human Rights Campaign. A guy on a street corner yesterday was telling people in my neighborhood about the organization.

]]> by: Kristin http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/10/10/birds-of-many-feathers-part-ii-as-long-as-the-birds-can-get-high-enough-to-see-beyond-the-crevasse/#comment-1438 Thu, 12 Oct 2006 16:58:57 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/10/10/birds-of-many-feathers-part-ii-as-long-as-the-birds-can-get-high-enough-to-see-beyond-the-crevasse/#comment-1438 Nate, this is all so profound. I like what you said about dealing with difference in a less conscious or intentional way--how this can sometimes end up being about eliminating the other person's position, rather than about bridging the gap between the two. I think that nuance is really important. I haven't really thought about it like this before--that building bridges is not the same thing as melting into one position, or one side getting converted to the other. The metaphor says there are still two (or more) sides to an issue, and *they* aren't what's moving toward each other. Rather, it's the people themselves, maybe literally, or in terms of will or intention, more so than intellectually. The very act of taking steps to bridge a chasm becomes part of the bridge itself maybe?...becomes what you talked about at the end of your comment, the self-fulfilling belief (or if not belief, then hope)? I also really like what you say about acknowledging the chasms. I feel like chasms are like the elephant in the room for so many of our relationships--everyone knowing the elephant is there, and feeling awkward and uncomfortable because of it, but feeling like saying anything about it is off-limits, not PC. I wonder if all of us would breathe a sigh of relief if in these chasmed places someone just said, "Hey. It's an elephant. Pretty hard to get around this thing, huh?" Like the ice would be broken and we wouldn't feel so stiff after that. I think sometimes our best intentions of building bridges start by trying to pretend chasms don't exist at all, or are only tiny little cracks in the sidewalk, rather than first acknowledging the reality of what they actually are. The other thing that your comment sparks is the notion that maybe there are chasms that will never be bridged, and the best we can do is search for places where the ground between us actually comes together. If a person feels hopeless about ever finding a way across a gaping hole, maybe hope can be cultivated instead around finding a place where the hole isn't The All of our relationship, where other aspects of our common humanity can become more obvious and in view. Nate, this is all so profound. I like what you said about dealing with difference in a less conscious or intentional way–how this can sometimes end up being about eliminating the other person’s position, rather than about bridging the gap between the two. I think that nuance is really important. I haven’t really thought about it like this before–that building bridges is not the same thing as melting into one position, or one side getting converted to the other. The metaphor says there are still two (or more) sides to an issue, and *they* aren’t what’s moving toward each other. Rather, it’s the people themselves, maybe literally, or in terms of will or intention, more so than intellectually. The very act of taking steps to bridge a chasm becomes part of the bridge itself maybe?…becomes what you talked about at the end of your comment, the self-fulfilling belief (or if not belief, then hope)?

I also really like what you say about acknowledging the chasms. I feel like chasms are like the elephant in the room for so many of our relationships–everyone knowing the elephant is there, and feeling awkward and uncomfortable because of it, but feeling like saying anything about it is off-limits, not PC. I wonder if all of us would breathe a sigh of relief if in these chasmed places someone just said, “Hey. It’s an elephant. Pretty hard to get around this thing, huh?” Like the ice would be broken and we wouldn’t feel so stiff after that. I think sometimes our best intentions of building bridges start by trying to pretend chasms don’t exist at all, or are only tiny little cracks in the sidewalk, rather than first acknowledging the reality of what they actually are.

The other thing that your comment sparks is the notion that maybe there are chasms that will never be bridged, and the best we can do is search for places where the ground between us actually comes together. If a person feels hopeless about ever finding a way across a gaping hole, maybe hope can be cultivated instead around finding a place where the hole isn’t The All of our relationship, where other aspects of our common humanity can become more obvious and in view.

]]> by: nate http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/10/10/birds-of-many-feathers-part-ii-as-long-as-the-birds-can-get-high-enough-to-see-beyond-the-crevasse/#comment-1437 Thu, 12 Oct 2006 02:16:22 +0000 http://www.kristinnoelle.com/2006/10/10/birds-of-many-feathers-part-ii-as-long-as-the-birds-can-get-high-enough-to-see-beyond-the-crevasse/#comment-1437 I know you already said this in some ways, but I think it is worth reiterating that bridging chasms is something that everyone should do (to the degree that they want to make the world a better place). This doesn’t mean that we all have to be members of groups that harm us (I’m not sure that any of us should do that), and it doesn’t mean we all need to try to bridge the major chasms that are out there—like you said, we can pick and choose. But I do think that we need to consciously pick and choose some chasms and try to bridge them. It might be that when we deal with differences in a less conscious/intentional way, what we are really doing is trying to eliminate one person’s position (rather than build a bridge between the two positions). So consciously building bridges seems important. At any rate, I think this building of bridges between chasms (even the little ones) is an art that we need to get better at. And I think we need to: (1) name/acknowledge the major chasms that exist, and (2) do so in ways that leave potential for future bridges. If we pretend the chasms don’t exist, then I think they get bigger over time. On the other hand, if we acknowledge them but say there is no way to bridge them, they may also get bigger. So I think it’s important to say that, yes, these conversations can take place and bridges can get built, even if we don’t know exactly how and even if we’re not the specific people to make it happen. In other words, I think our beliefs about whether or not differences can be bridged often have a way of being self-fulfilling. I know you already said this in some ways, but I think it is worth reiterating that bridging chasms is something that everyone should do (to the degree that they want to make the world a better place). This doesn’t mean that we all have to be members of groups that harm us (I’m not sure that any of us should do that), and it doesn’t mean we all need to try to bridge the major chasms that are out there—like you said, we can pick and choose. But I do think that we need to consciously pick and choose some chasms and try to bridge them. It might be that when we deal with differences in a less conscious/intentional way, what we are really doing is trying to eliminate one person’s position (rather than build a bridge between the two positions). So consciously building bridges seems important.

At any rate, I think this building of bridges between chasms (even the little ones) is an art that we need to get better at. And I think we need to: (1) name/acknowledge the major chasms that exist, and (2) do so in ways that leave potential for future bridges. If we pretend the chasms don’t exist, then I think they get bigger over time. On the other hand, if we acknowledge them but say there is no way to bridge them, they may also get bigger. So I think it’s important to say that, yes, these conversations can take place and bridges can get built, even if we don’t know exactly how and even if we’re not the specific people to make it happen. In other words, I think our beliefs about whether or not differences can be bridged often have a way of being self-fulfilling.

]]>